This is a small selection of testimonials from clients I have had the privilege of supporting on their parenting journey:
3 things I value in my Independent Midwife:
Short version:
1) Face to face time for comprehensive support both physically and emotionally.
2) Breastfeeding support.
3) Virtual support for questions instead of Dr Google.
Longer versions with context:
1) 1:1 in-person support in the form of a knowledgeable confidant to help me become a Mum. The NHS care seems to stop pretty much when your get baby home - but that is when, especially as a first time mum, all of the decisions and confusion kicks in. Having someone who comes and takes the time to talk to me about my worries, questions etc has been so valuable. Everything from what to dress baby in for the weather, colour of his poop, vitamin D supplementation, Cosleeping, breastfeeding etc right through to scar management and emotional support for me. Each appointment is around 1-2hours and Debs never makes you feel rushed or ridiculous. Chatting to her over cups of tea has definitely enabled me to process my pregnancy and birth, which has made me feel mentally stronger postnatally than I may have otherwise been.
2) Breastfeeding was really hard for us at the start as I had a “reluctant feeder” according to the NHS. In reality I had a tongue tied baby and flat nipples! Debs referred us for the tongue tie immediately where the NHS had dismissed it (Debs was right) and she also proactively got me expressing to protect my supply and feed baby. 10weeks on baby is still EBF and gaining kilos for fun. She had the difficult conversation with me about baby not gaining enough weight but in parallel offered me bridge and supported us in getting baby back on track.
3) Being able to text Debs with every little query/ worry was for me worth the investment alone. From studies on lambs regarding hiccups to probiotics for baby. Knowing she was always at the other end of a text enabled me to get off Dr Google and focus on getting to know my newborn baby.
— D.
I will be forever grateful to have had Debs as my midwife for the birth of my son. I came to the decision to have a homebirth very late in my pregnancy, having had a traumatic experience in hospital with my daughter and a miscarriage in between. After meeting Debs to discuss the possibility of having a homebirth I felt certain that it was what I wanted, and able to gather the strength to overcome the trauma I had carried with me in the preceding years. The care she gave me and my family, particularly postnatally, not only enabled me to have a positive birth experience, but also to come to a better understanding of what I had gone through with my daughter, and to work through some other difficulties too. She is deeply committed to supporting women to make the choices that are right for them, and she does this with compassion and kindness. And with cups of tea, tears and laughter! I have the deepest respect for Debs and will always be grateful for the care and support she gave me and my family.
— N.
Debs was my lead midwife for my second child. My first birth was an NHS Homebirth and had been traumatic. I sought out independent midwifery as soon as I found out I was pregnant again. It was the best decision I have ever made in my life. Debs care was incredible and I mean seriously, truly and honestly incredible. Every visit from her (and there was a lot for my anxious self!) was a joy and gave me the time and freedom to heal, grow, share and connect. By the time labour came around, I felt so chilled out I almost missed getting Debs there in time but she made it with 30 mins to spare and was the guiding light and helping hand I needed. The birth was incredible, empowering, strong and beautiful. Hands down the best experience of my life. Debs was right there with me but in the most quiet and beautiful way I never new I needed. Debs stayed for hours after and helped me with every single aspect of what comes after birth. It felt like the most pure and loving motherly care I have ever experienced, something I craved so much. The care didn’t stop there, Debs was there for me for the days and weeks following birth. I couldn’t have received better attention and advice. Just when we were about to be discharged, my baby became seriously ill. Debs was there for me every step of the way. Visiting me in hospital and being available for advice and support. I can never thank her enough for this unexpected and continuing care during the hardest time of my life. If you are thinking about going independent and haven’t decided yet please let this post make your decision easy. I would choose Debs a thousand times over and I can’t express how lucky I feel to have her in my life, both then and now.
— E.
Debs was one of our midwives in 2019. She was an amazing support throughout my pregnancy, was attentive and reassuring in all antenatal appointments and so supportive postnatally.My plans didnt come to fruition unfortunately, but Debs accompanied me in hospital and was a sounding board and an advocate for me in putting a new plan into place. She visited the day after T was born while I was still in hospital to make sure that I was ok and my wishes were being met. She made sure I got the best from the circumstances, I'll be forever grateful for that.Even a year later, I have contacted her to ask a few questions and she is always there when she can be.
— L.
Deb visited us on day 3 for a one off postnatal visit, and I would hugely recommend this to anyone with or about to be with a newborn. This was our second baby, and despite being though the newborn days before having someone to ask all our questions to, who could take the time to listen and discuss in depth any concerns was hugely reassuring- especially when baby is not following the instruction booklet they come out with. In your postnatal notes Deb provided a full check up on me and baby, and we felt this was a safe space to ask anything we needed to and trusted Debs expert advice. This was even more relevant in the current covid climate- because of this we were due to have telephone calls only on day 1 and day 3 with our community midwife, meaning we wouldn’t have seen someone face to face till day 5- in the hazy newborn and pjs days seeing someone in real life means so much- and can be vital in spotting any issues or supporting with feeding for baby and recovery for mum. Whenever I’m asked what is the best newborn gift someone can buy I would always say peace of mind and anything that makes you’re life easier or less worrisome in those early days- and so my mum got us the visit as our newborn gift- and it was the best one we received!
— C.
Pregnancy, birth and post partum would not have been the same for our family without Debs and her amazing dungarees! She helped put our toddler at ease with her warm and friendly attitude. She fully supported our choices and having her advocating for me during transfer to hospital made the entire experience so much calmer than my first child's birth. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend her to anyone who will listen!
— L.
Where do I start? I have received an incredible amount of support from you... I may not have been pregnant very long, but you are amazing! You offered me support and advice during both of my miscarriages and I am grateful for everything that you do. I know I can rely on you to be calm and level headed with any problems I have no matter the day or time... I feel at ease when I get your reassurance even if the outcome is bleak... You go above and beyond to make me feel supported and listened to and that makes all the difference. I hope to experience more of your maternity care in the future
— T.
Debs help through my pregnancy, labour and once my baby was here has been invaluable! Her wise words have always helped calm me when In a difficult situation, her knowledge flawless, her support incomparable. Debs helped me through a number of difficult situations, helping me feel empowered and in control by talking me through a situation and helping me find the answer that was right for me. I am so grateful for her support and would recommend her to everyone!
— B.
Debs has been an incredible support for me throughout my midwifery training – even right from the start, before I had applied to University. Her understanding and advice has been invaluable to me. Her approach to midwifery care is refreshing and inspirational; she is a true advocate for women. Debs emulates everything I hope to be once qualified. She will truly go above and beyond for you to provide exceptional gold standard care.
— S.
At a time when our deepest vulnerabilities were raw and surfacing again, when our family was just emerging as a unit, Debs gently and compassionately accompanied us through the rollercoaster of emotions and doubt, helping us to find our own feet and find our own way into parenthood. We were never told what to do or how to do it, although we also trusted that she would let us know if she thought something was awry. We knew that our values would always be respected and that Debs would never try to impose her own ideas or opinions. This helped us forge our own path into parenthood, safe in the knowledge that we would be supported to find the path that was best aligned with our family.
— Anon
When I had my daughter there were feeding issues from Day 1. Debs provided the support I needed to keep believing in my ability to breastfeed successfully. Offering many ideas and suggestions, as well moral support and cheerleading. Through weeks of exclusively pumping, Debs unblinding belief in me and my daughter was instrumental in her finally latching at 12 weeks old! There is no doubt that without Debs I would have given up before that point. I went on to breastfeed my daughter to the age of 3y10m, which seemed impossible in those early days!
— V.
Deb’s knowledge, support & rapid responses have been invaluable during my fourth trimester. For me personally, the fourth trimester has been the most challenging, and with the Covid pandemic effects on medical care, newly living away from home, a difficult labour and this being my first pregnancy, it has been a very lonely & overwhelming time. Deb’s has made me feel so comforted, and unlike some medical professionals, she always brings positivity and honesty to any questions I have thrown at her.Thank you so much, I cannot thank you enough.All pregnant Mummy’s you are very lucky to have Debs by your side! I wish I’d reached out to you sooner Debs
— L.
I have known Debs for 13 years and in that time she has been a constant inspiration to me and has advised and helped me with the birth trauma that I experienced when having my first son. She supported me when I wanted to make a complaint against a gynecologist, helped me navigate my way through being birth partner and was the defining influence that led to me having a truly informed, powerful home birth with my second son. Through knowing Debs I have evolved from believing that if the outcome of birth is a physically healthy baby then a women cannot complain, to understanding that every service offered throughout a pregnancy is a choice, that asking questions is never wrong and that women can choose what happens to their bodies and their babies. From first hand experience I would recommend Debs to any family as a midwife and advocate. She will work with them to ensure they have the confidence and knowledge to make their own personal decisions throughout a pregnancy. She is an outstanding advocate for women's rights and would tirelessly give her voice and support to her clients birth choices. I have left every conversation with Debs stronger, more confident and more educated. Educated about my body, my rights and filled with her confidence in my power to make informed decisions. She is a gift to women, a funny, brilliant, wise, powerhouse who you definitely want in your corner.
— L.
Saved our son, saved my sanity and saved me from court Where do I start? I first met Debs after a rather traumatic labour and delivery and I needed answers. Debs gave me the clarity I needed that the hospital wouldn’t. We found ourselves expecting number 2 rather quicker than planned. I was a mess. With my PTSD and the problems still raging with the hospital we were all for terminating. But for some reason I just knew I needed Debs. She put me at ease from the word go, nothing was too much trouble even my weird questions at weird times. If she wasn’t sure she’d find me the info I needed. So that was how she saved our son and my sanity and I suppose in a way my marriage (other half was traumatised too and for him knowing that I had the support I needed was very beneficial. But not only that, the support that Debs provided for him too). Appointments were always fun and relaxed with our eldest intrigued with the contents of her bag, the ghost was a definite hit and Debs frequently left with numerous different fruits and vegetables. As my date got closer I was in denial, but having Debs support got me through and on the night I just knew when I needed her. I decided I needed to transfer in and Debs came with me. We were met by a rather obnoxious (to put it politely) doctor, who immediately triggered my PTSD. Knowing I had Debs with me gave me the strength and courage to stand my ground (and saved me from throwing something at the doctor and as such saving me from court). We’d got to know each other so well throughout the course of my pregnancy that we knew what the other was thinking without even saying anything, we could just look and know. It’s unlikely that we’ll have another (although we have said maybe in a few years) but the one thing I do know, I would want Debs there and she’d be probably the second person to know about a positive test.
— C.
I now understand that every birth is valid.It's not about a hospital birth, a home birth, a ten minute birth, a c-section, a birth without interventions, or one with all the pain relief going!It's about feeling safe. Having people around you that you trust and that know you. It's about being informed enough to make YOUR OWN CHOICE.This is everything that Debs/the Storks were to me. I don't know how they do it?! Their knowledge and expertise around birthing, both the physical and emotional was remarkable. Yet, most days it doesn't even feel like they are midwives, it just felt like a friend popping round for a cuppa! Thank you for empowering me to trust my gut! Thank you for helping me to talk about and ease the pain of a traumatic first birth. Thank you for giving me the time, space, and unbiased information I needed to allow me to birth my second child in the way that was right and safe for me and my baby. Thank you for reminding me I have a choice!
— K.
I contacted Debs as I was pregnant with my fourth child, and had reached a place where Id built up a fear of NHS professionals and Local Authority due to incidents of failure, let downs and overbearing professionals.Im now a mother of 4 healthy kids. One of my children happens to be a home educated, wonderful 8 year old who is also Autistic. I did not wish for him or myself to be intruded upon by NHS red tape warriors, unlawful data sharing and uninvited opinions on our life choices, but more importantly so I wished to have a stress free pregnancy and post natal period, free of judgement, full of excitement and for my family to just carry on with a very normal happy way of living.Debs gave me all of that, everything we needed and wanted, and nothing we didnt...with a good few belly laughs thrown in.As I had a scheduled CSection I knew I simply needed ante & post natal advocacy, care and support and Debs happily tailored her package around us...a bit like a squeezy hug.My experience was so positive, I may even do it again!Thanks so much Debs.
— J.
Debs is one of those people you find yourself in awe of. First and foremost she is passionate about all things birth. She has this unique way of providing you with all the information YOU need at any point, whatever is happening to make YOUR decision on what YOU’D like to do without ALL the baggage of guilt, judgements, and fear. You can be certain (even in the most difficult of decisions) her way of keeping you informed using ALL her experience and rivers of knowledge will be done in a very respectful way.
I knew for my first 2 children I really wanted to have an independent midwife. I’m naturally a very private person when it comes to this type of stuff and you have to be comfortable with who gets to be with you at this life changing time. For one reason or another (mostly money and a husband who didn’t quite get it) we didn’t. So, when I became pregnant again, my third baby, I absolutely knew there was no way I could continue the pregnancy without someone to have my back and respect me and love me! Debs is priceless.
Secondly, she is a keeper! Because she shared such a special place in helping me overcome some pretty monumental hurdles I just can’t imagine my life now, 4 years later without her. She is a super special lady who will always provide you with the care and safety you need and deserve.
— H.
I will be forever grateful to have had Debs as my midwife for the birth of my son. I came to the decision to have a homebirth very late in my pregnancy, having had a traumatic experience in hospital with my daughter and a miscarriage in between. After meeting Debs to discuss the possibility of having a homebirth I felt certain that it was what I wanted, and able to gather the strength to overcome the trauma I had carried with me in the preceding years. The care she gave me and my family, particularly postnatally, not only enabled me to have a positive birth experience, but also to come to a better understanding of what I had gone through with my daughter, and to work through some other difficulties too. She is deeply committed to supporting women to make the choices that are right for them, and she does this with compassion and kindness. And with cups of tea, tears and laughter! I have the deepest respect for Debs and will always be grateful for the care and support she gave me and my family.
- N.
Debs has been my midwife twice now, in my 1st pregnancy which unfortunately ended in a miscarriage she provided so much support and compassion, she was there for me, answered every question or query even if they seemed silly. I even sent her a message querying a second miscarriage which was very early. Fast forward to my 3rd pregnancy (1st surviving baby) there was only 1 person I could imagine leading my care! Even after the indemnity crisis I knew that I wanted that same support that I had received previously. Debs is amazing! She's always there for you, she is so genuine and kind hearted. She will put up a fight for you, defend you and truly empowers you to stand your ground. I was not an easy case by any means but I felt fully supported and was never met with any hesitation when asking questions about the choices I had. She was always happy to answer the most bizarre questions, engage in conversation which was totally unrelated to the maternity care, she made me feel calm and always knew when I needed a joke to cheer me up or motivation to get me through. Not being able to be present for the birth was always going to be the hard part but in a way I felt like she was present, all those visits and messages, check-ins made me feel like she was right there when I was struggling with the complexities of my birth, "what would Debs do?", "What would Debs say?" I ended up with a pretty traumatic birth but Debs was immediately there afterwards (by message) asking me how I was, checking in on my recovery, making sure I was being looked after. As soon as I was home she came to visit and I felt calm again, at peace, she has an amazing aura about her. I never feel shy to speak up and ask questions, especially those totally TMI questions. She supported me and my baby for 1 whole year from the start of my pregnancy until 3 months postpartum and I cherish every single second spent. I don't think I could've done it without her. Through trials and tribulations of breastfeeding issues, information about a condition that my daughter might've had (false positive), wound checks, a birth exploration, fighting for me to access the mental health care I needed, showing me how to use my wrap. She's got you covered on all angles. Even now 2 months after discharge I still drop her a message or 2 asking a question because I trust her opinion and I know she's got a resource, a link or knows who I should get in touch with for more support. She's become a friend, someone I trust and who I feel genuinely cares about me, she's a listening ear and always there if you need her. So if you're looking for 100% personalised care and a truly outstanding Midwife with a genuine passion for maternity care and the women she looks after then you should definitely go with Debs!
— T.
A friend recommended contacting an independent midwife, and this was because I felt anxious that I otherwise I wouldn't see a midwife as much, with it being my third pregnancy. She said Debs was very good but also very popular, so I had to book fast. I was around 14 weeks when I contacted Debs and explained I wanted more care from a midwife, and that's precisely what Debs gave! Debs went above and beyond. I'm so thankful and happy to have had such fantastic support throughout my third and last pregnancy. I would highly recommend Debs, she is an excellent independent midwife who loves what she does, and it shows in her care.
— C.
Debs was our midwife for the postnatal period for both our children and I would have no hesitation in recommending her to other families.
Having seen how minimal the postnatal care is on the NHS and feeling like the postnatal period was going to be such a large adjustment I was very keen to have proper postnatal care and was so thankful that Debs was able to do this. Being able to be based at home and Debs visiting our home daily once we got home was amazing. It meant that we could establish ourselves as a new/expanding family with lots of cuddles and skin to skin which really helped with establishing breastfeeding and we never had to traipse across the city to different places for support as it was right there in our house. And also contactable at all times in between visits as things often crop up at other times.
Debs is extremely knowledgeable and experienced and we were able to have nuanced discussions about things that came up in the postnatal period, and could refer in to NHS services as needed/wanted.
It was also such a pleasure the second time round having Debs back in the family, and she really involved the toddler in the care, listening to the baby inside, helping weigh the baby and also weighing favourite toys and putting up with the endless questions that a toddler might have about all things birth related!
— B.
‘I initially met Debs for a birth reflection appointment after my first traumatic NHS birth. She did what others had not, she listened with focus and empathy, validated myresponse to what had happened, grieved with me, and asserted unequivocally how importantly I’d been failed.
From the moment I met her, I felt there was something unique about her that I hadn’t encountered in any other hcp I’d met. I felt she trusted me and acknowledged that no one was more invested in the well being of my baby than I. She shared her knowledge and insight readily and supported me in making the choices that were right for me and my family.
When I finally felt ready to have another baby I knew I wanted Debs support and trust to steady me through the process. She provided my antenatal and postnatal care and I consider every penny to have been money well spent. Debs approach is so holistic, she’s there for the whole family, she is much loved by my first born who was able to very involved and hands on in the pregnancy, listening to baby etc.
Debs is warm and kind, knowledgeable and sensitive. The time and care she can offer to a pregnant person or new parent is priceless. I would recommend Debs to absolutely anyone, whatever their birthing intentions, as all of my experience of Debs told me that she will support the people she cares for, in whatever direction make sense to them.’
J.
“Although you are the expert in midwifery, you have never made us feel like that your opinion was more important than me as the birthing person or us as a family unit.ur relationship was built on the trust that I'm the expert of my own body.
This was not only amazing (and how it should be) but was also especially important to me because the system has always treated me like I'm wrong in some way- too big, too loud, too melanated, too something.
This has always brought with it power dynamics that I have to navigate by performing to appease someone as a safety mechanism.
I didn't have this with you at all.
It was so refreshing, and I'd go so far as saying it was liberating.
Although these words don't do justice to the living it, I have to say that I experienced truly respectful and loving care.
During my first pregnancy, and generally as a person in a racialised and fat body, I have always been treated in harsh and violent ways by healthcare and other systems.
I remember vividly the first time you felt for baby.
It was so gentle and honouring of my body and this little baby growing inside.
I cried after you left when it dawned on me that my previous experiences weren't normal- that my body was good and enough just as it is, and I didn't need to feel violated or be in pain while being cared for.
I cannot express gratitude enough for how life changing being in your care has been.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.”
A.
‘I didn’t have a great experience at my first antenatal appointment with the NHS and so made the decision to seek care from an independent midwife. We were lucky enough to find Debs and I am so thankful. Thankful to all the time she had for me and for us. Time to get to know us, to answer all our questions, to lay out all our options in an unbiased way, to share her clinical expertise and signpost us to evidence based research. She made space for us to acknowledge when things felt good but also when things felt difficult. I did not get my ‘ideal’ homebirth, even though I did ‘all the right things’. Our baby was breech and my waters broke the night after a failed ECV, so I made the choice to go in for a C-section. Because of all the time with Debs and her support through consultant appointments I knew this could happen and all my decisions felt informed. However it still felt shitty. And Debs made space for that. I honestly believe things would have felt a lot worse hadn’t Debs been there. Not because having her as our midwife guaranteed everything went ‘perfectly’. But because she was able to hold space for things when they didn’t.’
M.
‘After a less than ideal first birth...a home birth that transferred, and took me a good 4 years to recover from, I really wanted the right support from the very beginning.
Debs was amazing from that very first antenatal, each visit left me feeling more empowered and reminded me to shake off my people pleasing and have ownership over my body, and confidence in myself and growing baby.
It was a joy to welcome her into our home, to have random chit chats and wonderful support. She never seemed to mind the over enthusiastic dog, who adored her! Or the kid who liked to talk.
Debs along with some other wonderful women helped to rebuild my confidence, and when the time came, I knew I could birth my baby, and I had the most wonderful healing birth.
Debs supported with ad hoc postpartum sessions, which were wonderful, it was so nice to welcome her into our postpartum bubble. I saw a whole new tenderness emerge from her....so calm, warm and gentle - just what every postpartum mama needs when you're rushing with oxytocin but oh so vulnerable.
My daughter now likes to role play as Debs , which I think is the highest of complements ...' mum, I'm... what do you call it? I have cool piercings and shaved hair? ...A midwife? ...YES!’
F.
“We booked postnatal care with Debs for our second baby after our first little boy had died unexpectedly in labour and we felt we were likely to need a bit more support if we actually had a baby to take home this time. I am so so SO glad we did! Debs was absolutely amazing, making space for us to feel all the crazy mix of emotions that came along with our beautiful daughter, joining us in our joy and walking alongside us in the difficult and challenging parts too.
When breastfeeding didn’t go according to plan, Debs listened and supported me in my wish to persevere, giving time and space to think through the options and always helping us to weigh up the pros and cons of any decision and sit with the emotions that inevitably came flooding out! After everything we had been through, breastfeeding was really important to me and I felt that Debs genuinely cared as much as we did about helping us achieve our much hoped for goal. If it wasn’t for Debs’ support our feeding journey would have been very different and she was so generous with her time and her patience in sitting with me in many tearful moments! It felt as if she was going above and beyond for us, but I get the feeling that this is the way Debs works with families and her care, companionship and support is honestly invaluable.
Debs slotted into our family life in those early days and weeks so seamlessly and thoughtfully, making space for our whole family in this new experience; me, my daughter, my husband, our son and even our little dog! I’m sure he misses his Debs time as much as we do!”
F.
My review of Debs's care could simply be 'everybody needs a Debs', but that wouldn't do her justice.
We sought out an independent midwife for enhanced maternity care and to navigate a
planned cesarean. We got so much more than I ever realised we could get from one individual.
We are information people. I want to know about things in a lot of detail so I can understand it and make an informed decision. Debs provided information about everything and anything to do with pregnancy, birth and little babies to a level that I was super happy with. We had books, videos, research papers and all her extensive knowledge shared with us in our appointments and by text/email in-between.
The postnatal care was particularly excellent. She came to our home and and sorted all 3 of us out, she didn't just concentrate on the baby but also that all the adults were doing good. A feeding issue was picked up on day 2 before it got serious because Debs took the time and care to listen to us and to see what was happening. Because of the trust built up over the many visits I knew I could trust her judgement and was able to happily act on her advice.
Debs's care is all encompassing and so much more than filling in numbers in a green book. She showed us how to use a sling, discussed what I needed to take to the hospital, sorted how many baby grows to buy, refined a birth plan, pondered where to get coffee in the hospital and where to get the best sourdough in York from.
The time spent getting to know us meant that Debs could properly care for us all. I didn't have to keep explaining our circumstances or defending our decisions, they were listened to and understood without any judgement the first time. Debs' care was a joy and we have made a friend for life.
T.
Our time with Debs
-supported us through x2 losses before we conceived for the 3rd time
-Her ability to navigate traumatic & challenging situations is what shone through most.
-She is not afraid to have the conversations most would feel was ‘the elephant in the room’.
-Honest honest honest
-Will always give you an unbiased run down of your options. Always. Even in tense environments.
-Never ever felt judged in anyway for our decisions & desires
-Always backed up any resources she recommended
-Quick fire response rate on messages
-So so supportive in the birthing space, knew exactly when to give us space & when to stay within ear shot.
-Partner support; when I couldn’t give my partner what he needed emotionally during a tough moment in labour, she was there to support him.
-Being so consumed with birth, & thinking I had prepared for postpartum with a meal train & extra time off work for partner, I completely had my breath taken away with how challenging the first few weeks actually were.. having Debs there so frequently in those early days was invaluable..
-when we were ready Debs helped us to create placenta prints in one of our postnatal sessions, such a fun & joyful morning & the prints turned out SO well. Explaining to us & showing us the placenta as we went.
-Overall it was such a blessing to have Debs support us through our pregnancy & birthing experience & getting to know her over our time together. Although our birthing experience didn’t go how we had hoped, we were always aware of our choices & felt we were able to hold our autonomy when choosing our options.
-10/10 for driving effort too… Debs travelled along way to see us as we are very rural
J.